"...to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction..."

Wednesday, March 28, 2007

Blog Wars!

What is it all about?

Reading through the comments section of this blog, it has become abundantly clear that many people have become discontented with the actions of a few regulars on these Natalee Holloway message boards. At what point was the focus lost? What allowed some of these boards to drift into what they have become? Why?

I have attempted to contact Robin Holloway and offer her a platform from which she can answer some of the many questions that have been presented on this blog. Of course, it is strictly her choice to answer or ignore, but I think it might go a long way toward healing a few wounds.

Since, I did make that offer; I will do the same for some of the others of you that have been singled out in the many comments. Do be careful with your choice of words, because hate mail might just become the topic of my next post.

This is an email address I recently setup just for moderating the comments on this blog.

EasyWriter07@yahoo.com

Contact me and we will discuss the possibility of publishing a different side to this little war that seems to be brewing.

- Mike -

Apparently, there IS no other side to this story! It is what it is and that ain’t good…

178 comments:

Mitral Valve said...

Of course I would welcome any input by Robin or others, but I tend to think it is too soon. I agree with what many said here, as long as members of the hard core are not ready to formulate their own opinion, as long as the "social control" in the group is too strong (read my earlier comments on Animal Planet) and therefore people are with or without consent bound together, as long as the standard of measuring is unequal and biased, I do not believe any true discussion can come from this and a good assessment can be made. First the "own agenda´s" need to be put aside, ego´s humbled down and a real good reality check must be made.

MV

Mitral Valve said...

I forgot to say this, but it might be of importance. One of the reasons I believe, as much as I would like it otherwise, an open discussion will never completely succeed, is because of the fact some people will have to admit they have been forwarding people´s PM´s to others, and I not mean Debbie, for she always wanted to know what was going on, that they had special little telephone conferences to discuss the enemy in and out and perhaps even some of them have to admit they hacked mailboxes, because it can not be accidental that more than 2 or 3 people have that experience. And frankly, I have the feeling that admitting this is too much to ask for.

Anonymous said...

Routine:

1. Person A attacks Person B (Person A is virtually always Reality, Mitral Valve or Earl.)
2. Person B defends self
3. Person A sees defense as attack and retaliates in kind
4. Person B again defends self
5. After several such exchanges Debbie posts a blanket "Play Nice. This is about Natalee." (Without taking sides or determining fault.)

This happens over and over no matter how many ways and times Person B tried to explain that Person A was NOT "here" for Natalee and was merely inciting ill will to railroad the forum off topic.

Routine with GAGIRL:

1. Person A attacks Person B
2. Person B defends self
3. If Person A is Reality the attacks escalate to PMs.
4. If Person A is Reality, Gagirl remains silent UNLESS Person B steps one inch over the line and is "mean" to Reality.
5. Gagirl then joins attack of Person B
6. Person B defends self against both Gagirl and Person A
7. This goes on to whatever extent draws Debbie's attention at which point Person B is banned (or at least seriously admonished) for fighting with a moderator (Gagirl).

Once Person B has been "run off" by either being banned or is "just" disgusted there is no more opportunity for Person A (or Gagirl) to be held to any accountability for their GUILT. At least not until EASY opened this blog (thank you).

Contributing Facts:

1. Robin takes all "facts" from Debbie. Not the other way around as it pertains to who are "good guys" and who are "bad guys" at BFN.

2. Debbie ASKED Robin to thank Gagirl, Rammstein and Reality. Debbie did not expect Robin to do so before she could "set the stage" first with an explanation regarding Meri.

3. Debbie (for whatever reason) will not ban Reality, chose Gagirl as a moderator (despite MANY pleas against doing so), refuses to actively moderate posts by those ROUTINELY in arguments (such as Reality) by making it so THEIR posts are not visible on the forum until they are "reviewed" by her (which IS an Administrator's option).

4. Debbie insists on protecting all "foreigners" regardless of their apparent agendas possibly due to some misguided need to feel more cosmopolitan. (Not that anyone is at fault "because" they are not Americans. Merely noting that Debbie caters to all foreigners, perhaps in "hope" they can be of some help not available to Mom and Pop here.)

Something that would have gone a LONG way to avoid so MANY hard feelings would have been to ACTIVELY monitor posts and when stepping in with the "Play Nice" comment go back to the originally offending post, reply quoting IT, say THIS is inappropriate and THEN ask the discussion get back on topic. Without identifying the "guilty party" it is virtually always the one who best defends themself who winds up banned or ostracized.

Mitral Valve said...

I like the math approach above, but if I may say so, not posting anonymous but under your known (nic )name would be more helpful and fair. This is not an attack but just an observation.

EasyWriter said...

I agree with what was just presented and I was a victim of the old one, two perpetrated by these people. First the troll puts the ball into play and attempts to provoke the target, which usually happens pretty quickly. Then the moderator comes to the aid of the troll. The “game” is in full swing by then and the outcome is inevitable. The administrator also begins an email campaign at first excusing the behavior of some and asking the target to just ignore the posts. If one resist the suggestion and demands some degree of satisfaction, the warnings begin. Victim is banned, trolls celebrate the win and the administrator lets the forum continue down its ill-fated path.

That is why I have asked what all of this is REALLY about, because it makes no sense whatsoever!

Mitral Valve said...

Mike, in my case it is extra complex. I am considered to be a PERSON A, but, as I read above:

"Once Person B has been "run off" by either being banned or is "just" disgusted there is no more opportunity for Person A (or Gagirl) to be held to any accountability for their GUILT. At least not until EASY opened this blog (thank you)".

In my case my fate was that of PERSON B. So, I must be both types. LOL

Anonymous said...

Yes Easy you were a target for the one-two and I know for a FACT you were setup.

The Troll A sent out PMs to his cohorts with his typical "watch this" (hehehe) smug attitude. THEN he proceeded to purposely provoke you.

He knew full-well that because you are bright and articulate you would be able (and inclined) to soundly defend yourself AND that doing so would cast him (oh, gee - yet again) in the self-made role of "victim" AND that Gagirl would then (drum roll please) come to HIS defense.

At that point the writing was on the wall. Troll A achieved his objective. He followed up with celebratory PMs to those same "friends" applauding his accomplishment after you were banned.

The outcome was actually inevitable. It happened to devolve in the mere Round One because you would not capitulate to the "please excuse" requests. However, had you "straightened up and played nice" there would have been subsequent Rounds Two, Three, etc since the stated GOAL of Troll A abetted by Gagirl had been to get rid of you in the first place.

Troll A generally targets those who voice support of a boycott but also reaches out to offend those he feels are most easily provoked. However, in your case (not to flatter you) was outright jealousy. Your crime? You were informed, funny, interesting, articulate, a little bit smug, new and WORST of all - MALE. (Left to your own devices there's no telling how many of HIS flock might have abandoned him for you?)

None of which explains why someone not involved, on the sidelines can CLEARLY see all the above - yet - Debbie is blind to it? Simply unaccountable. No ideas there Easy.

EasyWriter said...

I’ve been around internet communications for a number of years, but I guess I was still naive about message boards that supposedly support victims of crime. I honestly thought people were working together trying to come up with some answers. It was a sad education, but I did learn that these things are not what they seem on the surface. Unfortunately, the experience has caused me to question many things about the purpose of some forums and I have become much less giving.

As an aside, Steve Huff made an interesting comment today. It is the last comment in the topic can be read here: http://mike-connectingthedots.blogspot.com/2007/03/pure-chat-part-v_08.html

Anonymous said...

Before there was a gagirl, you would be reprimended via PM for "fighting" with Reality.

EasyWriter said...

It would appear he made some type of “bond” with the administrator of BFN and then began to systematically exploit the affection she had for the jester. I bet that gave him the biggest laugh of all.

You know who I am Debbie said...

I got banned because debbie hacked into my PM's and also took my password and used it to hack into another blog I was in.
The Admin caught her and banned her.
I Thank God for it too.
Because she was on her way to my private email account but my spam filter caught her.
I have all the proff ot thist.
Watch out people.

Just Me said...

OMG Debbie did the same to me.
I think I feel better knowing I was not alone.

Anonymous said...

I have only one question, Debbie, why did you make me feel sooooo welcome when I left SM? I came to BFN on the recommendation of Mike who held you in high regard at that time. I know I said some terrible things about you in an open letter, and Janet did admonish me in private, I am willing to tell you that right here. I did apologize to the dismay of many. I did apologize for my own good and not yours. I also did it to appease Robin who called me at 8:30 in the morning and I humbly did what she asked. You all know the post I made about it. I would like it to be known that even tho- Robin did call me, I did it for my own good. I do not want to be known as some that strikes out against someone that doesn't deserve it.

I would like to know Debbie, were you going to set me up like Mike? I gave many on BFN info. And for that I was criticized. Was that a mistake to share info with you and the members of BFN? I thought that we should share info to get to the bottom of the disappeared of Natalee.

I would appreciate a true response. I did apologize to you, and I did mean it, you never responded. I would appreciate a real and true response from you.

TIA,
Rob

Anonymous said...

Rob, please ... do not think you were ever special. They used you as much as they used everyone else.

Sam said...

BFNUts use you and abuse you then boot you. That's their motto.

If MIP, Ramm or Reality didn't say it. "It ain't so" to Debbie.

Debbie deserves NO RESPECT.

Debbie is a liar.

Debbie is a 2-face.

Debbie is a disgusting, lying, despicable, manipulative, twisted low-life. AND, what FEW are left at BFNuts are her followers whom appreciate MIP, Raamm & Reality. GMAFB

Will they ever see the light?

Just Me said...

No they won't see the light Debbie doesn't care I have a few emails with her and she is a bitch.
She is a PM hacker,a lier, and she is friends with posters who have talked bad about Natalee, MIP6 Do yoy hear me.
Quote Mip6 Beth thought the foremost important thing to do when she arrived in Aruba was to establish Natalees character as one of a virginal, non-drinking, perfect teen.
Because that's what sells!!!!

quote MIP6...I figure with my next post I should get the boot, haven’t decided which one to use yet the Beth lies or denouncing the Sainthood of Natalee. I have way too much fun watching them all freak out.

Debbie SHAME ON YOU Trader

Mitral Valve said...

Please!!

Anonymous said...

Apparently, there IS no other side to this story! It is what it is and that ain’t good…


No, there really isnt another side. I looked for a long time for a rational explanation for what has happened at BFN, but there is none. Notice how much controversey there is over BFN compared to the other forums you have mentioned and written about. Natasha

Anonymous said...

Sam and Just ...

Stop crying about being dis'd by Debbie ... she just doesn't give a damn about you and never will. I can't thik of anyone who has a problem with that.

Just Me said...

Good One hahahahaha
She just cares about her little debbies.yum yum hahahaha

Anonymous said...

Could it be that Dave Holloway is in the dark regarding the controversy surrounding his incomprehensible relationship with Mark Purcell? Could it be that Dave Holloway has put his trust in his wife who initiated a connection with this man? Could it be that Dave Holloway is under the impression that Mark Purcell has always compassionately supported Natalee's family in their quest for answers? I am only trying to make sense of a situation that does not make sense.
_________

MIP6 is someone who is trying to help us find Natalee! And we are grateful to him for all that he has done for us! I am sorry for all the bashing he and his family have had to endure and I am so glad he is still helping us after all they have been through.
Robin Holloway - Blogs for Natalee
Reply #17 on: Today at 01:06:00 PM

Dave made that email public to further bolster his book, remember, “Corruption in Paradise”. His other reason was to continue the hate campaign his ex started and he so whole-heartedly joined into. He is nothing more than a neutered male version of Beth; I can’t stand any of them.
MIP6 - Doc Holladay - Refugees Unleashed
Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:44 am

This family of the runaway Natalee are the lowest forms of life I have ever had the displeasure of experiencing in my life time. I can’t wait for the day when the house of cards that the Twitholes have built on there ongoing lies and deception comes falling down around there shoulders.
MIP6 - Doc Holladay - Refugees Unleashed
Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:08 pm

Are the pages from Dave’s work of fiction soft when you wipe with them?
MIP6 - Doc Holladay - Refugees Unleashed
Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:43 am

For me one of the main things I would like to see other than Natalee coming out of hiding is for Jug & Beth to make a public apology to the following during primetime, hell lets make it during the Super Bowl and they pay for the air time: Julia Renfro for the assault that Jug performed against her. Joran for all the lies that have been told by B&J against / about him. The K brothers for the same as Joran. The families of J2K for all the hate that the B&J lies have brought to there door steps. To all the great citizens of Aruba and all Dutch territories for Beth’s crap of asking for a travel boycott. To the American people for them being such lying pieces of crap almost nightly for 10 months. And at the end of the world wide broadcast of the apologies I would like to see the FBI than slap the cuffs on both of them and lead them away as the FBI spokesperson comes on the air and state that the public at large has been bilked for XXX number of millions of dollars by this pair.
MIP6 - Doc Holladay - Refugees Unleashed
Mon May 08, 2006 2:06 pm

Top my list would be Natalee. Followed by Beth & Julia in the same room at the same time with me sitting off to the side controlling Jug on his leash so he couldn’t shove Julia again. Bad dog Jug, bad dog. As I am asking the questions I could watch that little vein on Beth’s forehead start to throb with anger as Julia sits there calmly giving truthful answers to what took place in reference to the conversations between the two of them in those first few weeks. When it’s Beth turn to answer all I would hear would be a bunch stammering & stuttering along with the “you knows” and not relevant's. Heel Jug, bad dog.
MIP6 - Doc Holladay - Refugees Unleashed
Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:43 am

I see we have a couple of fuck nuggets trying to make Julia look like the bad guy (gal) again. Don’t you Kool-Aid drinking fucktards (damn I love that word) understand yet, I and I assume many on this board will believe what Julia has to say over anything Beth ever puts forward from her journal of lies and fabrication. Ya’ll are just pissed off because Julia owned that idiot & Paul Reynolds last night on the CC show.
MIP6 - Doc Holladay - Refugees Unleashed
Wed May 31, 2006 4:14 pm

Sam said...

Anonymous, great post.

I often wonder IF Dave Holloway actually knows what goes on with his wife, Robin and her male friends. What the conversations consist of and what ALL does she tell them.

When you make sense of this, please let me know.
____________

To the other Anonymous who made the silly remark (Stop crying about being dis'd by Debbie).

I left BFNuts because the place is unstable. ANYONE with eyes can TELL that place is ran by NUTS. Debbie did not diss me, I dissed her. (wink)

Just Me said...

I often wonder IF Dave Holloway actually knows what goes on with his wife, Robin and her male friends. What the conversations consist of and what ALL does she tell them.

I can bet Dave doesn't know he was in pain searching for his daughter in Aruba.
Robin was having drinks with her friend MIP6 in Aruba.
I think Robin likes him because he hates Beth.

Quote said...

Quote Robin left Natalee on the beach in Aruba

Sam said...

Robin should step aside and let Beth handle MIP6 and Natalee's case. She WOULD put Mark Purcell IN HIS PLACE, FAST!

Anonymous said...

Purcell's place is in a fish trap out about 3 miles from the coast of Aruba.

Sam said...

Mike, what do you think BFNuts agenda is?

Do they think they are "better than others" because Debbie is friends with Robin?

Do they honestly believe we believe Marl Purcell is helping the family after all the disrespectable statements he's made?

Has anyone contacted Beth regarding Mark Purcell? If not, I think someone should immediately contact Beth and fill her in on what Robin and possibly Dave is doing.

EasyWriter said...

I didn't remove any thread!

Are you looking for her forum? http://www.forumsdot.com/freebird

MAREBEAR said...

I like what Steve Huff wrote re: why he left BFN and that is gradually happening to many of us as the case fades. I also think Mike has the right approach in asking questions of those in control at BFN. Many say just walk away, and sometimes thats the right thing, but indifference can be dangerous. We could just walk away, but BFN is a main portal for people googling info about Natalee. I cannot help but feel this is a time in the case when those with information are either letting down their guard or feeling a need to relieve their burden of guilt. BFN could be the place they come to and they need to be welcomed.

BFN is, or should be, a team effort. The leadership there should be SERVING others and establishing an environment of shared responsibility.

Those in charge need to wipe out the suspicion, gossip, and petty rumors. There needs to be a climate of trust and honest communication among ALL members, not just a select few. There needs to be a better grasp of seeing without judging, and being aware of cultural differences.

Value the ideas and contributions of others, even if they contradict what a few of you believe. LISTEN before attacking, get clarification when you hear a rumor instead of going postal and ASSUMING someone has attacked you. CARE about your TEAM- that's what BFN should be. Only then will it be about Natalee and only then is there a chance that you will accomplish your mission of finding answers.

Anonymous said...

Easyrider ...

My hat is off to you for facilitating gagirl's departure as BFN moderator, for that needed to happen months ago. The woman sucked at it in that she lacked good judgment (and even abused her authority) but I do not believe that translates to gagirl being a horrible person, undeserving of respect as a poster and human being. It only means she failed at moderating.

With that said, I do not get people's obsession with Reality. Yes, a couple do think he is all that and more, and a few nutcases, of which a couple post here, consider him the devil, but overwhelmingly, people at BFN couldn't care less ... the man is nothing special. And, I must ask, easyrider, why do you care?

Though I agree that Robin was mistaken in her futile attempts to keep the gagirl lid from exploding, why would you read more into all that than Robin attempting to rehabilitate someone's reputation who, though we can only assume otherwise respectable, behaved inappropriately in authority at BFN? Don't you, too, have friends that you enjoy spending time with but can't take everywhere? Those lessons are learned and I don't see any reason not to give Robin a bit of latitude in this regard. Unless we see activity that suggests otherwise, it is only reasonable to believe she, and Debbie, now get it.

In summary, based upon your last post, it seems to me that you were less than sincere in you request to create an open dialogue with Robin. Robin is square one and Dave is a fool? Good thing Robin didn't take the bait.

Instead, I would have hoped you might have recognized the opportunity to suggest that it is time that we take a step back and attempt to, once again, work together. Instead of reflecting upon a few bad actors - those being vilified and, in the process, those vilifying – perhaps we can bridge divisions.

Anonymous said...

I think it is called frustration. You can only bang your head upon the wall so long before it becomes tiresome. Robin has yet to respond to his request, even though its certain she lurks here.

Anonymous said...

I disagree. Robin not responding is definitively an indication of gained wisdom and superior judgment.

Anonymous said...

Re.
With that said, I do not get people's obsession with Reality. Yes, a couple do think he is all that and more, and a few nutcases, of which a couple post here, consider him the devil, but overwhelmingly, people at BFN couldn't care less ...

You mean the ones who are left couldnt care less. Many have departed from BFN becuz of Debbies unwillingness to ban her troll.
Natasha

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I disagree. Robin not responding is definitively an indication of gained wisdom and superior judgment.

March 30, 2007 2:49 PM

Eventually, there comes a time when people must communicate if they ever want to advance their cause. I think the real reason no one has responded rationally to Easy is that they are cowards and they don't want to let go of their little game. They realize what a mess they've made.

Anonymous said...

As for Natasha's comment re: reality... I agree. Some may care less, but the troll still remains, hiding under the bridge to create trouble for any who dare to cross BFN.

Anonymous said...

Look at the member list and the posts of those who are no longer there, the many who made BFN a forum for the family.
Natasha

Sam said...

Everyone has to remember that BFNuts is not an official site for Natalee Holloway. It is a forum that discusses the case somewhat while games are being played. Several forums/sites discuss Natalee's case. Just because BFNuts has Natalee's name in the URL, that doesn't mean they are anymore important than any other site.

Also, by Robin posting there (BFNuts) now and again doesn't mean anything. Her credibility was lost long ago when she thanked people most of us disapprove of due to their messages on different message boards including BFNuts.

They asked the public for help.
WE ARE THE PUBLIC.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said ... With that said, I do not get people's obsession with Reality. Yes, a couple do think he is all that and more, and a few nutcases, of which a couple post here, consider him the devil, but overwhelmingly, people at BFN couldn't care less ...
______________

It is not about Reality's personal internet relationship. It is about his connection with the Holloways that is troubling. It is his underlying motives that are troubling. Along with his friend Mark Purcell, since the initial stages of the investigation, Reality has disrespected Natalee, Natalee's family and opposed the boycott in his posts which were submitted to various Natalee Holloway sites. Also, he has promoted Aruba as a safe tourist destination. All this took place prior to Robin outing him as her friend. As there is an obvious Aruban agenda, why would the Holloways befriend this person?
_______

Dear Curves,
I am truly saddened that you have allowed your fine organization to be swayed to a very small minority of hate mongers & xenophobes who for the most part have never even set foot in Aruba let alone even heard of Aruba prior to May 31st, 2005. You’re pulling of the Aruba sweepstakes speaks volumes to a company being swayed by lies & fabrications. As an American citizen living in Aruba for many years now let me give you a perspective that none of the “protest” emails can even come close to. Aruba is by far the safest island destination in the Caribbean. Aruba’s judicial system is based on Dutch law, world renowned as a fair and balanced system. Aruba’s people are highly educated individuals where most here speak at least 3 to 5 languages. Aruba has had ONE missing person in the last year, and that person may not even be a victim of a crime. You have done your valued customers a disservice by pulling your Aruba sweepstakes by depriving them the opportunity to truly experience what an island paradise really is. If you would like more information about the real Aruba please email at the following and I will be more than happy to set the record straight with facts not the fiction you have based your decision on to pull your Aruba Sweepstakes.
Blogs for Natalee - Reality
.
.
ARUBA - The Untold Story of Natalee Holloway and Corruption in Paradise .... Dave Holloway
.
In fact, he (Jacobs) was so confident that she was just partying it up or on drugs that he told us this particular bar would be the best place to find her. However, he did warn us to watch our drinks very carefully, adding that sometimes people put drugs into them.
Page 9 - Dave Holloway
.
While customers must pass by a bouncer at the door, there was no indication that he was stopping anyone from entering. The bar was packed with teenagers doing Jell-O shots and sleazy-looking island boys preying on the beautiful young female tourist. I did not want to stay inside, so we hung out around the street corners. In less than two hours, we probably experienced at least ten to fifteen offers from various drug dealers who wanted us to buy from them.
Page 10 - Dave Holloway
.
During our daylight searches throughout the island, our group came across many abandoned houses where drug addicts had left razors and other drug paraphernalia. Some were filled with foul smelling odors, feces, urine, cardboard boxes they used as blankets or beds, and general trash. One of those houses was located right next to a fine restaurant near the hotel area and a McDonald’s. Several times, people came into the hotel to meet with other locals and an apparent drug deal was taking place. The person would come in to scope out the area prior to doing the deal.
Page 16 - Dave Holloway

Anonymous said...

Great point! WE ARE THE PUBLIC, and as much as I hoped for reform, BFN is NOT for the public, so bring down the curtain, the farce is played out. They'll be happy most of us are gone so they can continue their sad little social clique between a certain 6 and a few sorry groupies. What a shame its not about Natalee. Spread the word not to send money to the foundation as its backed by those against Beth.

Sam said...

IMO, Robin Holloway screwed up any chance of that Foundation becoming anything but a loss.

I would never contribute to any foundation that has to do with Dave & Robin Holloway.

They made their bed now they must sleep in it!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Eventually, there comes a time when people must communicate if they ever want to advance their cause. I think the real reason no one has responded rationally to Easy is that they are cowards and they don't want to let go of their little game. They realize what a mess they've made.

March 30, 2007 2:59 PM

Why would you consider answering to Easyrider imperative or even due courtesy given his recent posture?

Secondly, why would you encourage anyone rational to join when, among us we have those crying out for attention in a ludicrous and leveling, but awkward attempt in establishing pre-eminence and even screaming, WE ARE THE PUBLIC. Odd, actually.

Just Me said...

Sam said...
Has anyone contacted Beth regarding Mark Purcell? If not, I think someone should immediately contact Beth and fill her in on what Robin and possibly Dave is doing.

March 30, 2007 11:01 AM
______
Yes I told beth everything.

Just Me said...

With that said, I do not get people's obsession with Reality.
________
You would have to be a desperate woman to fall for the "your so beautiful" line.
It's pathetic realy, they must have no life.

Mitral Valve said...

Does Mark Purcell (MP??) live on Aruba and if so, does he visit Carlos & Charlie´s ?

Just Me said...

Mitral Valve said...
Does Mark Purcell (MP??) live on Aruba and if so, does he visit Carlos & Charlie´s ?
______
Yes he lives in Aruba and worked for the Marriot.
He has said he has gone to C&C's
Better yet he has gone to the Lion's Den had a few drinks and danced with pretty woman.
I wonder if he told his wife.

Mitral Valve said...

Does he know Joran?

EasyWriter said...

I let my frustrations about recent events spill over into my last comment. I really don’t know what drives Robin, or why she bonded with a particular group of people. I’m sure Dave is a very good man that just wants answers, but I think he has acted foolishly to put his trust in certain people. Those people have a yet defined agenda and that really bothers me.

Sam said...

MV, Mark Purcell claims he lives down the road from Joran and that he knows (HAS MET) PVDS. I've never seen him say where he'S met Joran or not. However, MP is at Moombas all the time which is a hangout for youngsters.

Mark is great friends with Julia Renfro. He defends her greatly.

Anonymous said...

Another conflict of interest that make one shake his head in bewilderment in regards to Mark Purcell's relationship with the Holloways. Marlene Purcell is Mark Purcell's wife.
.
The Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association General Assembly Elects
A New Board for AHATA
A.M. Digital
12/05/2005
The Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association voted in a new board at its general assembly which took place at the Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino.
(snipped)
The election process was assisted by Dr. Ryan Peterson, Universidad di Aruba, attorney ANTONIO CARLO and MARLENE PURCELL, Salamander Holdings under the supervision of consultant Jaap Beaujon...
Translation: Getagrip

EasyWriter said...

What has always seemed very odd to me is that many of these American expatriates living in Aruba and connected with AHATA have not put Aruba in a good light. They have been the most vocal on all of the message boards and also the most questionable. Strange…..

Anonymous said...

Sam said ... Mark is great friends with Julia Renfro. He defends her greatly.
____________

It is pure and simple. Julia told the truth about Joran on national TV which was directly the opposite of what the family had just said on national TV. By doing so she became an enemy of the “family”, from that day forward according to the “family” and thier whacked out supporters, Julia became a target that had to be discredited.
Threats to her, to her family, to her children. Lies told over and over again about her to the point with this latest attempt to discredit her, she has received well over 100 HATE emails. She just added these to here collection. The collection that has grown so much she had to buy an additional hard drive to hold them all. Nice group of FUCKTARDS. I also read peoples concern for Julia’s safety in this thread last night and this morning, I agree, there should be concern in this regard. However, that concern can be tempered with the fact that not only myself but also many more here in Aruba have her back at all times. So to you FUCKTARDS from the other sites that lurk here and are reading my post, you have been warned: If your plans are to mess with Julia, her family, her children or her friends here in Aruba while you come on a so called fact finding mission, you will need to go through the Doc to get to her. All bravado aside, I would not wish that fate on my worst enemy.
Doc Holladay - Refugees Unleashed

Just Me said...

Also Mark Purcell has a son who has a website that makes fun of the fact that one MB kid didn't return home NATALEE.
Now why would Robin put up with this, I have NO IDEA.
Yes Joran ahd his frinds went to the Marriot Hotel.
I have photo's of this and this where is Mark works. The boys have their F*ck party's and Mark closes his eyes to what ever elso goes on.
Just tell me WHY do you trust the DEVIL ROBIN.

I have lost respect for you robin.

Anonymous said...

You don't like Robin and feel this incredible need to trash her, again, and again, and again, and again...

Do tell how you feel doing so brings about anything positive?

Anonymous said...

I would never bash Robin but I sincerely fail to comprehend her defence of a man who has disrespected Natalee, Natalee's father and mother, the Mountain Brook kids and family supporters with such hateful, vulgar and vile words through his postings on various internet forms.
_________

MIP6 is someone who is trying to help us find Natalee! And we are grateful to him for all that he has done for us! I am sorry for all the bashing he and his farmily have had to endure and I am so glad he is still helping us after all they have been through.
Blogs for Natalee - Robin Holloway
.
This family of the runaway Natalee are the lowest forms of life I have ever had the displeasure of experiencing in my life time. I can’t wait for the day when the house of cards that the Twitholes have built on there ongoing lies and deception comes falling down around there shoulders. I also can not wait until the day that Julia tells all, even though she is a class act, I think she will someday put it all out there.
Refugee Unleashed - Doc Holladay
.
Dave made that email public to further bolster his book, remember, “Corruption in Paradise”. His other reason was to continue the hate campaign his ex started and he so whole-heartedly joined into. He is nothing more than a neutered male version of Beth; I can’t stand any of them
Refugee Unleashed - Doc Holladay

Juat Me said...

I don't dislike Robin.
I don't feel that I'm bashimg Robin.
I think she is being taking for a ride by MIP6.
I would like her to OPEN her eyes.
I feel sad for her to trust the very person who put Natalee and Beth and Dave.s name in the trash.
What else can I say.
ROBIN WAKE UP

MV said...

I will ask my cousin to check some things out regarding MP. She is in the hotel business as well.

Anonymous said...

Just ...

Let's see. You go on and on and on about Reality yet you consider others obsessed.

You are so delusional that you feel Debbie the all mighty since that is what it would take to read someone else's PMs that are not forwarded.

Oh, and you call Debbie a bitch yet the venom seemingly drips from your posts and never hers.

And, yes, you trash Robin.

EasyWriter said...

Many of us are not happy with the way BFN has been run and those that were once loyal to the site would like to have some answers. That is very understandable, because many people invested a great deal of time at that forum trying to help find some answers. Their perceived trust in the place was dashed by a few simple words, their complaints ignored and their efforts dismissed in favor of a few characters. That feeling of betrayal has been left to linger and turn into hostility, simply because a few do not feel a need to explain anything about those decisions.

I definitely understand those feelings, but I think this has gone far enough and turned into a bash fest. Certainly, no one owes anyone an explanation of their personal choices in these matters. Of course, the wise thing would be to put an end to the speculation so that people could move on. I don’t think that is going to happen here.

Outside of causing some hurt feelings, it is not that important. We are all free to just move on and support any cause we deem worthy. Let’s do that!

Just Me said...

Anonymous ...
Your real brave not signing your name lol.
Reality doesn't bother me at all.
MIP6 and Debbie do.
You seen to be the new bitch with venom drips from your posts.
Get a life, go outside smell the roses.

Mitral Valve said...

I have far more important things on my mind than our Loverboy and his gang. We have a war ahead.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/844640.html

Anonymous said...

Re.
You are so delusional that you feel Debbie the all mighty since that is what it would take to read someone else's PMs that are not forwarded.


Not necessarily, many forums come equiped with the option for admins to read their members PMs without the members knowledge. FOB for one, the admin most certainly can read PMS. It even has a 'become this user' option. The only way we can know for sure is to open a forum like the one BFN uses to determine if Debbie has these capabilities.
Natasha

Anonymous said...

Re.
Oh, and you call Debbie a bitch yet the venom seemingly drips from your posts and never hers.



Debbie has her own minion to do her dirty work. ;)
Natasha

Anonymous said...

lol

PMS = PMs

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Not necessarily, many forums come equiped with the option for admins to read their members PMs without the members knowledge. FOB for one, the admin most certainly can read PMS. It even has a 'become this user' option. The only way we can know for sure is to open a forum like the one BFN uses to determine if Debbie has these capabilities.
Natasha

April 1, 2007 4:24 PM

--------------

Name one and do be so kind to provide link documentation to back up your assertion.

I have been owner to 3 different forums during the past 10 years and have yet to be able to have the power to read other peoples private messages. I have also never been able to retrieve and only reset passwords.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Debbie has her own minion to do her dirty work. ;)
Natasha

--------------

April 1, 2007 4:26 PM

I am not anyone’s minion. I just call it as I see it.

I think you are being callously unfair towards both Robin and Debbie.

Let me ask ... what exactly is it you want? If you only want to berate, I do not see that productive. If you want one or both of them to bow to you and say you are right, I do wonder, given the circumstances, why you would consider that important.

Is it that you would like to see BFN run more inclusively or exclusively? Really ... what change do you seek?

Mitral Valve said...

"Really ... what change do you seek"?


I would say " Reality....what chnage do you seek.....a webcam`"?

Anonymous said...

Re.
Is it that you would like to see BFN run more inclusively or exclusively? Really ... what change do you seek?


An apology would be nice.
Natasha

Anonymous said...

SMF 1.1 Online Manual / Using SMF / As a Regular User / Personal Messages /
« previous next » A note on Privacy
By default, there is no way an administrator or anyone else can read your personal messages. Only you and the person you sent it to are able to read what you wrote. However, it is not impossible for one with access to the database of the forum to read them through the database with a SQL command. For this reason, it is advised to not send personal messages that contain private information that you don't wish for anyone else to read.

http://docs.simplemachines.org/index.php?topic=589

Natasha

Anonymous said...

Re.
I have been owner to 3 different forums during the past 10 years and have yet to be able to have the power to read other peoples private messages. I have also never been able to retrieve and only reset passwords.

April 1, 2007 8:44 PM


I cant read PMs on my forum either. Brandig28 said she could read PMs at her forum when she made me co-admin for all of maybe two weeks. You go get your own documentation. ;)

Anonymous said...

Re.
I think you are being callously unfair towards both Robin and Debbie.



???
Natasha

Anonymous said...

Re.
I would say " Reality....what chnage do you seek.....a webcam`"?



Why would Robin and Debbie defend a man who seduces and exploits women? gagirl has even warned new female members that they would be "hit on" by one of the male members. It just doesnt make any sense.
Natasha

You know who I am said...

I was a Admin on a site the only way to read PM's is to steal their password.
Now this is possible only if you forum has an error log.
Then you can see all the times a poster forgets their password, You can, if your a piece of shit. see what they are doing wrong and figure out their password and see all their PM's.
Yes Debbie you stold my user name and password.
The Admins got you and banned you.
BFN posters save you password. Debbie can see error logs and get into you PM's
She did this to me and many more.

Anonymous said...

Natasha ... are you aware of what a disclaimer is? If you do, please keep it in mind as I continue.

Ian owns BFN and controls the host server account. We all know this. Anyway, Debbie may or may not have server access and if she does, may or may not have full access. I am not sure if Ian had full access to source code since access packaged by GoDaddy.

Anyway, let us assume Debbie has gained access to the server containing source code. She would need to next identify the correct Simple Machines files, open those files, manage to decipher and isolated certain record and field identifiers necessary to design and send an SQL command and retrieve YOUR personal messages.

I do not think it impossible but given Debbie's programming knowledge (specifically, lack of), I think her chances of hitting a Vegas million-dollar slot jackpot would be significantly greater.

Anonymous said...

It was suggested that admins cannot read PMs, I have shown they most certainly can, it is not impossible. Whether or not Debbie does is for the individual to decide. Personally, I dont have much faith in Debbie.
Natasha

EasyWriter said...

Only those running BFN could provide those answers and I doubt those will be forthcoming. Plus, would we believe what we were told? In my PM experience at BFN Debbie seemed to be as confused as me and others. The “administrator” locked my account and made a post in their forum tech area that my password had been changed due to my PM’s bouncing back to the admin. He/she then said that I would have to send an email in order to receive the new password and have the account reactivated.

I thought the whole thing was so strange that I did not even consider emailing those people and giving them additional personal info. I will add that I had received a few PM’s from one of the moderators and others. Nothing of real interest in those and were primarily “hello and welcome” type messages. It was only after Robin sent me a series of PM’s, that this became an issue and my account blocked.

Something is going on at the place, but it just isn’t clear what. No, they may not owe anyone an explanation, but if they are going to present themselves as a victim’s rights advocate they should be very upfront about their operation. Adding to that need is their interwoven link with a new charitable foundation. No one is willingly going to send their hard-earned dollars to any charity, if they know nothing about the leadership and the intent of the funds.

Anonymous said...

Obviously, for many, there are personal issues that have created anger at BFN. Yet, the bottom line is that this organization is supposed to be representing a missing girl that we all care about. Unfortunatly, most of us have ethical questions about the administration. There is an elite group who display little or no concern for the issues of the case, undoubtedly because this might threaten their own claims to authority and leadership.

Brandig28 said...

Quote:
I cant read PMs on my forum either. Brandig28 said she could read PMs at her forum when she made me co-admin for all of maybe two weeks. You go get your own documentation. ;)


I don't know who you are, but I have NEVER been admin of a forum that could read pm's, nor have I ever stated that you could read pm's at a forum I was admin of. I have only had two forums and I closed one down because I found another host that had better board styles and games. I am a mod at BFN and I KNOW that I can't read anyone else's pm's or steal their passwords. Personally, even if I had the opportunity to read someone's pm's as an admin, I wouldn't because I couldn't care less what people say to each other in private. I don't have time for that crap. I think that some folks have too much time on their hands trying to come up with ways to discredit people when they don't like their views, what they say, or any number of other things.

By the way....love the way you posted that anonymously....

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said... I do not think it impossible but given Debbie's programming knowledge (specifically, lack of), I think her chances of hitting a Vegas million-dollar slot jackpot would be significantly greater.
-----

Anonymous, the chances significantly increase when an entity referred to as Reality enters the calculations.

Anonymous said...

There is no doubt that my pms were read at BFN. It is telling when you receive a pm from someone and immediately a "certain" other pms and asks why you are buddies with so & so. It is telling when your pms from a certain person mysteriously disappear from your account. It is telling when you receive a pm from someone that sounds made up and nothing like that person and then they act confused when you later ask- because they didn't really pm you, someone else faked their nic. It is telling when you send a pm to someone that questins the admin, and that person never responds- because the pm was removed. It is telling when you pm someone and immediately there is a pm from a certain someone telling you the one you just pm'd is not trustworthy. I know all of my actions were monitored and controlled at BFN. It is also obvious who was doing it and it is not Debbie.

Anonymous said...

By the way....love the way you posted that anonymously....

April 2, 2007 10:47 AM
__________________________

Do not criticize what you have not experienced. Many of us have been through the wringer of lies and abuse at BFN and must protect ourselves. You do not understand what you do not know.

Sam said...

BFNuts have dug their own grave and members and non members has been throwing the dirt in rapidly over the past year or more.

The site is nothing.
The site means nothing.
They are nobody's.

Just because Robin makes a fool out of herself there doesn't mean they are a legit or important site. They are just another forum whom has made a total FOOL of themselves.

I do not go there anymore. A friend of mine lurks there, she says nothing is there. They talk about nothing important. They look into what was said/done in the past. Never one thing new because there is nothing new.

They've hung them self. The morning is over. LOL The asses remain and are really Ghost.

I am really sick of hearing about BFN. The nobody's will never be "anybody". They are and never were important. BFN had no members until natalee.net went down and most of the members went to BFN. Debbie couldn't take that many members so she freaked out and the digging started.

The End

Anonymous said...

LOL Sam- yes, it should just be THE END. I just cannot be settled though that an organization that represents Natalee may continue with such a corrupt agenda. The word needs to spread that the foundation is not a worthy cause and supporting Beth's endeavors are the right ones.

Anonymous said...

Sam,

Having a chance to learn what you are all about, I think BFN is a far better place for you being kicked to the curb.

I suppose we are all happy.

Anonymous said...

And what is sam all about- the truth? I guess you don't want that at BFN. It might mess with the sick little power game. reality, gag, & debbie's twisted connection to robin. Some people feel empowered by being close to a victim's family, because they have no lives of their own. Very, very sick.

Anonymous said...

Re.
I don't know who you are, but I have NEVER been admin of a forum that could read pm's, nor have I ever stated that you could read pm's at a forum I was admin of.


You dont remember me huh. Well I remember you and Nainebug telling me we could read PMs at your forum where you made nainebug and I co-admins.
Natasha

Brandig28 said...

Quote:
You dont remember me huh. Well I remember you and Nainebug telling me we could read PMs at your forum where you made nainebug and I co-admins.
Natasha

___________________________________

Natasha, Elisabert, Elza?

I remember that conversation well. In fact, I went back and looked into the now disabled board that has been disabled for months, if not over a year, to refresh my memory. I saw where you were leaving BFN because you were paranoid that someone had found something out about you. We asked you about it and you NEVER would tell us WTH was going on. I also read where it was Naine that asked if we could read pm's and I replied that we could not, nor would I want to, unless it was Joran or the Kalpoes. Now, I take pride in my honesty and would be more than willing to copy and paste the stupid posts anywhere you like, with your permission and Naine's of course. I don't know what your problem is but you should not have a beef with me because I have NEVER done ANYTHING to hurt you or disclose anything that I might have known about you previously. You know, all of that paranoid crap started when you and someone else wanted to play a trick on someone on BFN anyway, or was it they were playing a trick on you? Is that why you are so pissed? Like I said before, I haven't done anything to you, so just leave me out of your drama. I'm glad you at least owned up to the post so I didn't have to wonder if my friend naine had turned against me for some unknown reason.

Anonymous said...

I'm not Natasha, but you can stop calling it paranoid CRAP. It is what it is and some of us have been so hurt by it that we are afraid to post our real names. It was not our imagination, it is going on and you were also a victim of it. I've seen things about you in the pm system. Wake up and see who you're working for. Stop hating people for speaking up for what is corrupt at BFN. You have been brainwashed.

Anonymous said...

I wasnt hiding behind an anonymous post, I just forgot to add my name. I remember a totally different conversation concerning reading PMs. Its you and nainebug who like to play games. That board hasnt been dismantled for over a year becuz I went back and read my PMs from there a month or two ago. I even copied some of them. Im not the one who plays games at BFN and I have never played a joke on anyone there. Where did you come up with that? Let me guess....Nainebug!
Natasha

PS Do you use C Panel?

Brandig28 said...

I'm not brainwashed and I am not hating ANYONE for saying anything bad about BFN. I just need a little proof instead of people talking in circles about some "mysterious" thing that happened to them before I am willing to jump ship. I don't think I am any more important than any other forum member anywhere. I'm not friends with Robin or Dave. Robin pm'ed me once and I answered and that was it. I'm not friends with Beth, either. The only two people that I've ever talked on the phone with from one of these forums is Debbie and LindaK. They both seem very nice.

So I just don't get what some of you are saying. How can I have been victimized when nothing "unusual" has happened to scare me off from BFN. No porn PM's or anything like that.

Brandig28 said...

I'm not brainwashed and I am not hating ANYONE for saying anything bad about BFN. I just need a little proof instead of people talking in circles about some "mysterious" thing that happened to them before I am willing to jump ship. I don't think I am any more important than any other forum member anywhere. I'm not friends with Robin or Dave. Robin pm'ed me once and I answered and that was it. I'm not friends with Beth, either. The only two people that I've ever talked on the phone with from one of these forums is Debbie and LindaK. They both seem very nice.

So I just don't get what some of you are saying. How can I have been victimized when nothing "unusual" has happened to scare me off from BFN. No porn PM's or anything like that.

Anonymous said...

When a person donates to a cause, the action must involve both the head and heart.

My heart tells me that supporting the Holloway foundation where funds would be used to find answers to the suspicious disappearance of Natalee Holloway would be a very good thing.

Then I stop and consider using my thought process. Robin Holloway has befriended and publicly defended those who bash Natalee, Dave, Beth, Jug, Mountain Brook students and their supporters in their posts to internet forums. She has publicly upheld those who have an agenda to defend Julia Renfro, Paul Van der Sloot, Joran Van der Sloot, the decisions of the judges, the choices of those within the investigation as well as promote Aruban tourism.

Until a logical explaination is forthcoming from Robin, there is no way that I could in good conscience donate to the Holloway foundation. I consider those who Natalee's Stepmother has established a relationship with the enemy. I consider these relationships a betrayal to those who have supported the family since the beginning with words and actions which are derived from a foundation of love.

Robin, look into you heart. It is never to late to bow. I know the hearts of those who truly embrace Justice for Natalee and, Robin, they will embrace you too. You just have to open up to us.

Debbie has my email if you wish to contact me.

Sincerely

Janet aka Tamikosmom

HE IS RISEN ... HE IS RISEN INDEED.

Anonymous said...

Robin befriended MIP in aruba, maybe it seemed good at the time. MIP felt important knowing someone in a hgh profile case. Back at the ranch, reality and gagirl were getting to know each other through photo sharing and their lustful attraction. Reality strokes gagirl's need to feel she still has it. Gagirl does reality's dirty work, bashing posters etc. They met MIP who shared their hate against the MB kids and when they heardMIP knew Robin, they latched on. They all feel important knowing a victims family and they are not going to let anyone break up their sick little power needs. Reality and gagirl have enough computer savvy to read pms, fake nics, etc. They control the show at BFN whether you want to acknowledge it or not. If you are kept in the dark, it is intentional. Of course they are not going to tell you they are reading pms. I have the proof, but I cannot share it without going public. I cannot do that without getting myself in trouble. Believe what you want.

Anonymous said...

Brandig28 said...
I'm not brainwashed
________________________

People do not usually know they are being brainwashed lol.

Anonymous said...

Brandi said:
I don't think I am any more important than any other forum member anywhere.
__________________________

No offense, but that's just it. You are not important enough to be part of reality and gagirls game. They don't need you and they are not going to tell you the underhanded things they do. Better to keep you in the dark. And of course, if you ask, they will lie to you.

Anonymous said...

Re.
I saw where you were leaving BFN because you were paranoid that someone had found something out about you. We asked you about it and you NEVER would tell us WTH was going on. I also read where it was Naine that asked if we could read pm's and I replied that we could not, nor would I want to, unless it was Joran or the Kalpoes. Now, I take pride in my honesty and would be more than willing to copy and paste the stupid posts anywhere you like, with your permission and Naine's of course. I don't know what your problem is but you should not have a beef with me because I have NEVER done ANYTHING to hurt you or disclose anything that I might have known about you previously. You know, all of that paranoid crap started when you and someone else wanted to play a trick on someone on BFN anyway, or was it they were playing a trick on you? Is that why you are so pissed? Like I said before, I haven't done anything to you, so just leave me out of your drama. I'm glad you at least owned up to the post so I didn't have to wonder if my friend naine had turned against me for some unknown reason.



If you pride yourself on honesty then why are you making up lies. I left your forum becuz your friend Nainebug thought it cute and funny to follow me to another forum and pretend to be Reality. Whether he was part of that game I will never know for sure.

lol and Im not pissed. I dont sit in front of my PC banging on the keyboard like a madman.
Natasha

Anonymous said...

Re.
They met MIP who shared their hate...


Reality was conversing with MIP6 before gagirl ever entered the scene.
Natasha

EasyWriter said...

Was the game playing more important to Debbie and Robin than those that were trying to help?

I’m still having a hard time understanding how all of this came about and was not put into check long ago. It has gone so far now that it is almost impossible to trust anything about that site.

So far none of this looks very good at all and can make a person begin to re-think some things........

Mitral Valve said...

Being away for a day and seeing the post just now, I think we can cut the trash on Debbie and Robin. Mainly two persons have caused a lot of doubt, anger, frustration: Reality and Gagirl.

The only thing I know is that my PM´s to Gagirl, from the weekend before I was banned, are all gone. Brandi asks for proof: proof is very difficult to deliver when you are banned and have no access to your mailbox. Otherwise, proof is not enough proof because somebody can mess with it. Somebody can hack my IP address and register under my name, people can exchange nic names (Naineburg??). In short: all we can proof is that we are feeling uncomfortable and the fingerpointing leads us to a very clear cause.

Sam said...

MV, Debbie and Robin are in the same sinking boat as gag and Reality.

Sam said...

BFN is a trash site filled with hate.

I'm happy I'm not part of their hate group.

Anonymous said...

MV, why were you banned?

Mitral Valve said...

Anonymous, if you give me your name I will tell you the reason.

Anonymous said...

EasyWriter said...
Was the game playing more important to Debbie and Robin than those that were trying to help?
___________________________

Robin latched onto MIP in Aruba because he trashed Beth and Robin is jealous, so they formed a bond. She cannot admit to herself that its a game. Debbie unknowningly opted to help at BFN and then got sucked into the act. Debbie cannot do anything without permission from Robin and Robin gets her permission from reality and gagirl. It sounds incredulous, but it is a very simple power group. It is not uncommon for grassroots social orgs to have similar power issues. They have forgotten the original mission and enjoy the status they have with Robin. Stay far away from it and spread the word.

EasyWriter said...

There have always been some questionable forums around and the Natalee Holloway case brought out the best and worst in people. With most of the forums it immediately becomes clear what they are about. That is not true with BFN. That is why so many former members have questions about the place’s motives and those questions always go back to the leadership.

Robin interjected herself into the tempest when she decided to make a public statement praising a group of people that had been stirring up trouble from the beginning. Even if we could have rationalized the statement and brushed it off as misinformation, that can’t be done now. She came to this blog and repeated her allegiance to that same group of people.

How is one supposed to digest something like that? Are we supposed to just forget it and move on? I don’t know, but it is very obvious those choices were not based upon ignorance of the facts.

What becomes of BFN is of little importance to me, but there are bigger issues in all of this that cause me concern.

Anonymous said...

While I am certain Reality (and maybe GaGirl) has the know-how to do any number of things with BFN there are two aspects that I would like to mention:

1. The software of BFN does NOT facilitate an Administrator, nor Moderator, to view PM's.

Reference: http://docs.simplemachines.org/index.php?topic=451

FAQ: Are administrators able to view their member's PMs?

SMF strongly emphasizes on one's own privacy. For that reason, this forum software does not allow anyone to view other members' Personal Messages: this includes the administrators.

2. I cannot imagine Debbie remotely having the technical expertise to circumvent controls of the forum beyond what has been made available to her by Ian in the Administrator's "backend."

However, it is VERY easy to own one's own copy of the software (it is free) to enable one to sit around and "play" with how to best exploit the system. THIS is something I think Reality has almost certainly spent some time doing.

There is software that would allow someone with Reality's "skills" to seek and find the address of the database for the forum. (All posts and PM's reside on a database, not within the server folders of the forum software itself.) Once, the address of the database is known he would then need to know the password. I personally think it doubtful he has access at least not on a routine basis as it is very likely Ian changes this routinely.

My point being, while not dis-crediting anyone who says their PM's have been read and shared, I just have to say, I don't see how. It is much more likely PM's were forwarded to others then the forwarded data was removed before sending back to you so it appeared it had been intercepted.

Of course, if one is able to "guess" your password, it is entirely possible someone does directly access your account. It makes sense to change your password routinely.

And Easy, the main situation I know of that would cause one to receive the email you did that wanted you to re-authenticate your account to activate it again is if you change your email address in your profile setting it automatically "suspends" your account until you respond to the email to re-authenticate from the new address. Meaning after you logged out you wouldn't be able to log back in until clicking the link in the new email.

Not sure any of this helps. But at least you have the link included to learn anything of a technical nature about the forum software and its capabilities.

R said...

People you have error logs on a forum that tells you when you put in your password wrong if you did not save it .
Error logs don't lie.
Putting in a wrong password goes into a file called error log.
Any Admin that is a piece of shit can figure out what your password should be by trying a few combinations and BINGO she is in
Debbie did this to my friend and not only took her password ,and user name she tried to hack her personal email account.
This site owner went to his lawyer. and I also have the proof with Debbie's email address on it showing it was her that was doing this.
Posters beware.
R

EasyWriter said...

My email address did not change. Someone in authority then assumed my identity and posted in the forum tech thread something to the effect that I was history. Within the text of the message I was seemingly admonished about PM’s and told that I could not re-enter the site without making contact via email. I had no desire to make further contact, so that is where it ended for me.

Subsequent messages in that thread came from Debbie asking what was going on and from others asking the same thing. Their questions were never publicly answered.

Also, it is important to realize that no one at BFN knew that I was using that screen name (SN), my post count was very minor and the PM’s I exchanged with Robin and some of the moderators were very innocent. I don’t even think I replied to most of those PM’s. I can also guarantee my IP Address was not an issue either. It was only after I broke the news of Jamie Skeeter’s death that I was linked to that SN by Robin.

I’ve never been one to spend much time playing the PM game, so my depth of knowledge is limited. I do know that forum administrators can “assume” the identity of members and logic would dictate that the door would then be open for all the other nefarious activities.

Anonymous said...

Easy, That has me stumped. The only "way" I can think of and it is very reasonable is if your account was DELETED (which could have been done immediately after banning it). Once the account was deleted, anyone (Reality, etc?) can then create a new account with that user name. Then, of course, that "new" you can post on the forum and for all intents and purposes it would appear to be "you." In this case it could have been anyone who knew your account had been deleted.

Just a note to those who think passwords are found in the error log, that is not possible. Below is an EXACT copy of what appears in the Error Log of a forum using the software BFN uses. The line item indicates that the USER NAME of Humphrey ... entered an incorrect password. It does NOT indicate WHAT characters were attempted.

Password incorrect - Humphrey

EasyWriter said...

Some of the forum software bundles do allow those in charge to “assume the identity” of their members. That is a known fact and presented as a benefit to using the free software. What happened to me was very suspicious under the circumstances and I was not about to take it to the next level.

Just this morning I got a very official looking email from PayPal letting me know my purchase of an expensive camcorder had been received and it gave me a shipping address of Timbuktu (figuratively). Within the text there was a link given where I could dispute the charge. Instinctively, I started to click the link. Then I pulled back and thought.

I went directly to PayPal and the other named site and registered a complaint. Within two hours I had confirmation that it was a fraud and was being tracked down.

My point is that we would be silly to believe anything we are told across the internet at face value. I know what happened in my instance with BFN and that is all I really need to know. Wouldn’t touch it with a cyber pole!

Anonymous said...

Re.
Are we supposed to just forget it and move on?


Yes and No. Keep talking about Natalee, forget BFN. You cant make sense of BFN becuz those who run the forum (the in group) all have their own agenda for different reasons.
Natasha

Mitral Valve said...

Hi guys,

I remember now that Robin once sent me a PM thanking me for my efforts and translation of some police reports.

As for the email accounts. I will play it safe and this Easter weekend I am going to change providers.

Anonymous said...

Easy ... sending email under an alias is nothing new --- only takes a simple command code --- and if you do business on eBay, such fake PayPal and eBay emails are common. This does not mean that your account compromised; rather, someone was phishing for account access. You were smart not to click the link. Two months ago, my brother was not so lucky.

However, you have got me thinking ...

What name did you use at BFN that created issues for you?

EasyWriter said...

My intention was not to confuse the two separate incidents. With the paypal business I was just pointing out that there is always someone out there lurking around looking for ways to rip people off. This internet business can be a very dirty business.

When someone at BFN used my SN to post that crapola about changing my password, I was using the name Ambiguous.

Anonymous said...

After reading through all these comments, I have only one thing to say. It really does not matter whether you like one forum over another - trashing them does absolutely nothing to further the cause of finding answers as to what happened to Natalee or where she may be.

My question is - what are any of you really doing to try and help Dave and Beth get the answers and to find Natalee. Isn't that the real reason we all came to a forum? Both of them (and Natalee's other family members) have lost something very precious to them - Natalee. The lives of these people has been altered and will never be the same again. Did we come to Forum (whatever name you want) to try and help them? Or was it for ourselves to play games and see how much we can disrupt, misinform, abuse, or otherwise derail topics and drive people away. This is the kind of activity that those in Aruba who have been stonewalling this investigation for 22 months just love - they want everyone to be so confused and frustrated that they will just go away and all will be forgotten.

Is this what we want? Are we more concerned about what others say and do and worry about our hurt feelings or do we want to do what we came to do - find Natalee and bring her home.

I don't know about you, but I think Natalee deserves better than this. She did not ask for this and neither did her families. Do we care or not? I do - very much!

EasyWriter said...

Many of us care and we always have, but there is no news to report about the case and we are still dependent upon Aruba and the Netherlands to get the answers. None of us can make that happen while we are sitting at our keyboards.

This topic is about how some people have been treated on some message boards that have dealt with the Holloway case. And, that has not always been very good.

I have always supported Beth and Dave. I will continue to do so and I do hope some day there will be a break in the case that will make a difference. As far as these various message boards go, I do not like anyone yankin’ my chain and playing silly games.

Anonymous said...

RE:Are we supposed to just forget it and move on?


Yes and No. Keep talking about Natalee, forget BFN.



DONE! Let's move on...

Sam said...

Anonymous said...

My question is - what are any of you really doing to try and help Dave and Beth get the answers and to find Natalee. Isn't that the real reason we all came to a forum? Both of them (and Natalee's other family members) have lost something very precious to them - Natalee.

_____________

I will personally say I work close with Beth. Beth is also aware of the way BFNuts is ran and all the things that goes on at that silly site.

Anonymous said...

There have been suspicions about hacking accounts at BFN for some time.

If anyone has proof, please report it, as hacking is a federal offense.

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